IB Diploma Schools in Florida: Mean Scores
My daughter attended a middle school in Switzerland that provided dual tracts to the International Baccalaureate (“IB”) or the French Baccalaureate Diploma; alternatives to a typical high school diploma. When we decided to move back to the United States, I contacted the International Baccalaureate Organization (IBO) in Geneva, Switzerland to find out about IB Diploma schools since we preferred to continue with the program.
The IBO website (www.ibo.org) told me there were 743 IB Diploma schools in the US, of which 72 offered the IB Diploma program in Florida but they provided no performance information about each school.
- What courses are offered at the standard and high level;
- The IB Diploma has a higher threshold than a high school diploma;
- The percentage of candidates who earned the IB diploma; and
- The mean (or average) score of the IB Diploma class.
The IB Diploma curriculum requires students to choose subject courses from groups that include math, science, literature, language, business, and the arts. Some schools don’t offer standard and high level courses in every subject so request a list to determine if courses in the area your child excels are offered at the high level because every IB Diploma candidate must take 3 subject tests at the higher level. Many colleges in fact give credit to any student that earns a 4 or higher on an IB test so many freshman enter college with credits.
The standard courses are typically yearlong while the higher level courses are two years in length.
The IB program has grown rapidly in the United States, especially in the public school system because the program is broad-based and academically sound. Any school that adopts the program needs to be commended as they are raising the academic standards of the school: a student that earns the IB diploma – no matter the score – has successfully studied 3 subject areas at a standard level and 3 subject areas at a high level (comparable to an AP level). By contrast, a high school diploma does not require any subject area to be studied at the AP level. Therefore, first and foremost the earning of an IB diploma is a great achievement.
Approximately 80% of the worldwide candidates earn the IB diploma but only 70% of the candidates in the US earn the IB diploma. There are two factors to consider in this rate: the student and the school. School success rates vary and although important, the rate needs to be interpreted with caution because the trend is also important: Is the school on an upward or downward trend or consistently producing the same pass rate?For example, if a school has a 60% pass rate year after year, then questions need to be asked regarding how candidates are chosen and being prepared. Those reporting pass rates of 90% or higher need to be commended.
Just as the SAT, ACT, and AP scores are important barometers for parents who send their children through a “normal” high school curriculum, the mean score of the IB Diploma class is an important barometer. Applicants with higher SAT, ACT, and AP scores get into better colleges as do applicants with higher IB scores. Although seniors take the final tests in May and scores are not reported until July (after college acceptances), admission officers are not taking a shot in the dark in estimating what the IB score will be based on the standard level tests already taken, the strength of curriculum (courses) and grades, SAT or ACT scores, AP exams (if taken), and SAT subject tests (if taken). It’s simply not true that an admission officer familiar with the IB can’t tell a student that will score in the 20’s from a student that will score in the low 30’s, high 30’s, or 40’s.
I contacted the IBO and asked for the mean scores of schools in Florida and was informed this information is not provided by the IBO to the public citing privacy concerns. When asked how a mean score of an IB diploma class at a public school in the US violates anyone’s privacy, I was advised to contact the schools directly. Somehow the Swiss always fall back on that privacy defense – Swiss banking comes to mind – when my intuition tells me the reason probably has more to do with profitability rather than privacy.
- The number of students that are registered (candidates) for the IB diploma;
- The number of candidates that passed the IB diploma exams;
- The score of each candidate;
- The mean score of those awarded the diploma;
- The average score obtained by the candidates that passed the IB diploma exams;
- The highest diploma points (score) awarded to a student;
- The mean of the test scores on the subject tests;
The stonewalling of the IBO was astounding and although I didn’t particularly relish contacting schools to get this information, I was determined to have the information that I had a right to know. Under the Freedom of Information Act, this information (at the public school level) has to be made available to anyone asking for it. Private schools do not have to release this information but because they rely on private tuition, they tend to release these figures when asked, especially if the school’s mean scores are high.
I e-mailed and/or called the IB coordinator at each of the 72 schools that offer the IB Diploma in Florida. A few readily provided the information. Several IB coordinators referred me to the Florida League of IB Schools, known as “FLIBS” (www.flibs.org) as a resource, but this website only includes basic information (i.e. location) and nearly half of the schools are not listed. Skip FLIBS and contact the IB coordinator at each school.
Most IB coordinators ignored my request or claimed they didn’t have this information until I reminded them the IBO provides the school with an annual statistical report with this information and that in order to issue an IB diploma, a score has to be known. Still many coordinators said they don’t release this information and only provided the mean when advised they were obligated to under the Freedom of Information Act. And surprisingly, a few coordinators tried to convince me the mean wasn’t relevant when in fact, the mean is very relevant just as the SAT, ACT, and AP scores and means are relevant. These scores don’t tell the whole story but they certainly tell part of it.
More often than not, I explained to the IB Coordinator that parents are readily provided SAT, ACT, and AP mean scores, and therefore, the mean score of the IB Diploma class should be provided without parents jumping through hoops. Not one Florida IB Diploma school reported the mean on their school website. The question begs: Why?
The IB is big business in the US primarily in the public school system where schools desperately needed to improve and consequently added the IB program to achieve better results. The US is the largest IB country in the world with 1,298 schools (in a very distant second place is Canada with just 310 schools), of which 296 offer the primary years program, 444 the middle years program, and 743 the IB diploma program And, the program is growing rapidly. The IBO may be secretive because the market is young, growing, and profitable for the IBO and because the US mean score (27.5) is below the world mean score (30.7).
Riverdale High School, Fort Myers: 30
James S Rickards High School, Tallahassee: 28
Southeast High School, Bradenton: 29
Vanguard High School, Ocala: 29
South Fork High School, Stuart: 31
Choctawhatchee High School, Ft Walton Beach: 28
Winter Park High School, Winter Park: 29
*Both schools are unclear if there were any successful IB Diploma candidates as the scores are either low or still pending.
Gateway High School, Kissimmee: 28
William T Dwyer High School, Palm Beach Gardens: First IB Diploma Class in 2013
* First class was in 2011 and there were 2 candidates, 1 of which earned the diploma.
Land O’ Lakes High School, Land O’ Lakes: 31
St. Petersburg High School, St. Petersburg: 30
IB School at Bartow High School, Bartow: 29
Riverview High School, Sarasota: 29
Seminole High School, Sanford: 31
Pedro Menendez High School, St. Augustine: First IB Diploma Class in 2011
Lincoln Park Academy, Fort Pierce: 28
Port St Lucie High School, Port St Lucie: 23
Spruce Creek High School, Port Orange: 31
Florida IB Diploma schools (not including Jones, Evans, or Carrollwood which would probably bring the average down) have an average IB Diploma score of 29 – above the US mean of 27.5 but below the world mean score of 30.7. In England, there are 210 IB diploma schools, of which 20 (nearly 10%) have a mean score of 34 or higher. If this statistic is applied to Florida IB Diploma schools, then there should be 7 schools that have a mean of 34 or higher. There aren’t. There are two (and one school had only one graduate) and a third school was very close with a mean score of 33.
Finally, a last word on interpretation of mean scores. The high mean score may not mean a school is the top performer because a variety of other factors have to be considered. The number of years the program has been operating, the number of candidates, the pass rate, and the mean score all have to be considered.
Boca Prep may seem like the top performer with a mean score of 37 but that mean score is the score of the one student who passed. The class of 2011 was also the first graduating IB Diploma class for Boca Prep. Two schools – one public (Palm Harbour University High School) and one private (Gulliver) – stand out. Palm Harbour University High School in Pinellas County has offered the IB diploma program since 1995 and had a 95% pass rate (more than 60 graduates annually) with a mean score of 33 in 2011. Gulliver has offered the IB diploma since 1996 and reported a mean score of 34 in 2011.
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Thank you so muchDiana for working so hard to get this important information as we try to make decisions about where to send our children to an IB program.
Thanks a lot!
Best of luck. You may also be interested in reading:
I am grad that I found this. I was spending hours to find out these informations. My family is planning to move to Miami from Asia and it will be the first time for us to live in the US. My most concern is girls’ schooling. Thank you so much for your post.
You’re very welcome.
Thank you for sharing
Hi Giovana:
The best place to find the answers to your 3 questions above is to call the IB Coordinator at both schools. The IB out of Geneva requires that there be an “IB Coordinator” at each school where the program is offered. I checked the school websites and couldn’t find the name so I recommend calling both schools. This person may claim he/she does not have the information but they absolutely do. Don’t accept no information as an answer. They just don’t like to give out this information. However, private schools are motivated to give out their scores (especially if the scores are high and the pass rate is also high) because they want to attract students and parents that will pay the tuition so insist on having the information. Finally, don’t forget to ask the IB Coordinator about the standard and higher level classes offered. Request a complete list so you can see what the options are for your son. He will be taking 3 areas in standard levels and 3 areas in higher levels. Compare the course offerings at both schools.Some schools simply offer more course offerings than others.
I don’t know why the schools are ranked differently because I haven’t seen the rankings and how the ranking was compiled. Do not accept rankings as gospel because you have to find out how the rankings were done (each ranking puts different weight on items like test scores, diversity, principal’s opinions, sports programs, arts programs,etc). So, you have to know how they determined the rankings. As an aside, do the same thing when you start looking at colleges. Most of the college rankings don’t include a financial aspect which is ridiculous because the amount we pay for our kids education should count (i.e. the biggest bang for your buck). Also, different aspects appeal to different families – ie. the academic programs, sports, job placement. So, you always want to know how the ranking is done. Don’t just accept a ranking.
Finally, when you have some free time, watch this video of Malcolm Gladwell (who often writes about education) giving a talk at a Google conference. It’s about 20 minutes long but so worth it because he explains why people would choose Harvard over University of Maryland and why that is so often a mistake. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc
hi Anne! Could you help me find information about North Broward Preparatory School in coconut creek and Windemere Preparatory School in Windemere?
I must choose between this two schools to enroll my son. We would like to know which of them is best academically and want to check information about:
1) the last IB diploma pass rate
2) the last average score of the IB diploma class
3) the average obtained in the SAT by the students
Based on what i have reserched, the scores of north broward are better than the windemere’s. However, i saw in the internet that Windemere Preparatory School is the 5th best high school in florida while North Broward Preparatory School is the 20th place. That’s what i dont undestand. Could you explain why?
By the way, your post helped me to build up my qyestions and to research. THANKS!
Thanks for the effort put into this… This helped my situation a lot!
Happy to help. The coordinators have updated mean scores (it’s not true if they say they don’t). If I take on updating this info, I will be sure to share.
Hi
I have been looking for this info for ages. I will be phoning the coordinators on Monday with my questions. Thanks a lot for sharing your work, it is a great starting point for me – moving from an OIB programme in Nice, France to Florida. (If by any chance you did update this information please share). Thanks again
Hi Janina: I’m happy the information was helpful..I should update it!
This is a lifesaver and very informative. I graduated with an IB diploma in Germany in the 80s and desperate to find the same high quality education for my children in the U.S. Thank you!
Hi Raya: I’m happy you found the information helpful. Although dated by now, hopefully the numbers still provide a guide for parents to ask the right questions of the IB Coordinators in each school. Gathering the information is tremendously time consuming (since the IB Coordinators and the office in Geneva won’t release the figures) but necessary. Good luck getting data on the MYP.
This information was tremendously helpful! YOU are amazing. I am an educator myself and have been trying to ask that our schools highlight this information. It is good to know that I am not the only one trying to pull this data. I am now trying to get data on the MYP programs…
Thanks…so happy you found it helpful.
Thank you for your post. This was the most helpful article I have read regarding IB prgorams in Florida.
I don’t know how the German Abitur compares to the IB. If you want more information about the specifics of the IB (as opposed to the mean scores in Florida high schools), go to these links:
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/08/the-ib-diploma-school-asking-the-right-questions/
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/02/understanding-the-international-baccalaureate-ib-program/
Hope that helps.
Hi,thanks for the Informations. How do you see the IB compare to a German Abitur ?
Not sure what is better for our son worldwide.
I haven’t done any research on the AICE but do know the AICE is only taught in English and has been around since the mid-1990’s.
If you want more information on the IB and also how it compares to the AP, here are two links below that you may want to read. The bottom line is that the AP is not a diploma program; the AP is a one course designation (in many subject areas) in which the student takes the AP exam at the end of the one year course. The AP exam score is 1-5, with 5 the best with most students trying to get a 4 or a 5. A student that takes AP courses throughout high school will earn a high school diploma. I hope that helps. Here are the links:
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/02/understanding-the-international-baccalaureate-ib-program/
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/08/the-ib-diploma-school-asking-the-right-questions/
Great info! Do you have any info about the AICE compared to IB & AP?
Hi..I’m happy to help. You should be able to get 2012 results from most of the schools because these scores were reported to the schools last summer. Good luck!
I am heading to Orlando on Feb 18th, and will be visiting schools partially based on the information from this blog… truly appreciate the input from all !
Thank you for your note and I am very happy the information is helpful to you. As you said – we all want our children to get the best education possible – but we can only do this if parents are given the information they need to make the right decision for their child.
Dear Aedpad, thank you for your hard work and publishing this info. As the parent of our first child we are trying to navigate thru the IB and AP system and we all want our children to get the best education possible. Kudos to your leadership and kindness to share this. Thank you.
I’m happy the information was useful.
The difference between the AP and IB is:
1. AP applies to a single year-long course. For example, the course “European History” may be offered but there may also be a “European History AP” course offered which is more challenging and culminates in an exam at the end of the year in which a score of 0-5 is obtainable, with 5 being a perfect score. 4’s and 5’s are good scores which many colleges recognize and will give credit for.
2. The IB is a 2-year program. I did a several posts to help readers understand what the IB is whose links are:
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/02/understanding-the-international-baccalaureate-ib-program/
http://itsassimpleasthat.com/2011/11/08/the-ib-diploma-school-asking-the-right-questions/
Whatever high school you look at, ask what courses are offered at the AP level. Dr. Phillips, I believe is in the Orlando area and does not offer the IB program but does offer many AP courses – here is the link:
https://www.ocps.net/lc/southwest/hdp/AC/programs/Pages/ap.aspx
If you look at high schools that offer the 2-year IB program (junior and senior year), ask for a list of courses offered at the standard and at the high level since students must take courses at both levels. You want to make sure the courses offered at the high level are those courses your high school student is interested in.
I hope that helps clarify the differences.
Thanks for supplying all of this information… indeed, most useful for me as a parent planning to move from Brussels, Belgium back to the states, and Florida in particular.
Can you tell me the difference between AP programs and IB programs? I’m considering Dr Phillips HS for my daughter, but they do not have the IB at this time.
I’m very happy the information helps – took countless hours to put together and will hopefully help other parents. The IB is an impressive program and will only get stronger in the US as the program advances into the middle and primary schools which will better prepare the students in the future.
However, the IB Coordinators in each public school need to be more forthcoming by doing three things: inform parents, release the information (i.e. mean scores, pass rates, etc), and explain how it differs from a regular curriculum. Every parent is entitled to this information.
Ask the IB Coordinator if you can speak to parents of students that went through their IB program as these parents are a great resource. If the IB Coordinator won’t provide names, use your network of friends and parents to find them. I found many parents that told me the program was impressive but they wish they knew more before sending their child through the program as it’s not a one-size fits all program when it comes to scores and college admission.
Thank you so very much for providing this detail and insight to the IB Program. I live in Bay County, FL. Five high schools offer advanced academic programs (AP, AICE); eligible students may choose to attend our son’s parochial school on Friday to recruit our 8th grade students. The IB Coordinator and her students were the most impressive. Your hard work has informed our final decision…and we will rest much easier. Thank you!! (Relieved to see that Rutherford High School seems to be doing well, comparatively.)
I’m happy that I could help. Hopefully one day soon, the public IB high schools will readily provide this information to parents.
Very helpful. We are considering a move to Florida, and you have saved me untold hours of work. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback and I’m glad you found the post. I,too found information very difficult to obtain from high schools but knew I was entitled to the information. Parents are entitled to the score information (just as they are entitled to the SAT, FCAT, ACT information) and the schools have the information – they just don’t want to provide the mean scores and pass rates because they are generally low. I wrote the post to empower parents so they can confidently ask the questions and get the information they need to make decisions on their child’s education.
All of your hard work and information is much appreciated! It’s been impossible to find out about Florida’s IB schools concisely and clearly, until we found your post.